Software reverb with ANY soundcard

This forum will help people to use the Jeux d'orgues sounbanks with their configuration.
Joz
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:57 pm

Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby Joz » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:29 pm

Hello,
Here is a way to add software reverb to the output of the soundcard, for people
who don't have a hardware reverb unit !
Good to have a cathedral sound ;)

1) Simple solution : works for Creative Sound Blaster Live! soundcards.
Use the driver Audiotorium effect in the Control Panel of the Sound Blaster Live!

2) Other solution.
Install a VSTHOST : http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm (for example)
Install a VST reverb : Freeverb for example http://www.sonicspot.com/freeverb/freeverb2.zip

[There may be newer versions of these softwares. It works with these version but feel free
to experiment other versions !]

Then two cases :
* You have a "What you hear", or "Wave" input on your soundcard (you can see this by loading the Windows
mixer and by showing the Record inputs in the Options/Properties/Recording menu)... Then choose in
VSTHOST this input as input ;) and the standard audio Out as output... Then load the VST reverb.

* You don't have such an input. Then install Virtual Audio Cable.
http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html
Choose "Virtual Cable 1" as Output in your organ Software (MyOrgan, Soundfont, Hauptwerk, etc.)
Run VSTHOST and Choose "Virtual Cable 1" as Input and your standard soundcard ouptput as output...
Then load the VST and set a non-zero output volume !

Enjoy !

PS : 1) Please tell me if you know a simpler solution
2) If you know a freeware equivalent to Virtual Audio Cable, it would be good !

astazou
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:18 pm

Re: Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby astazou » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:34 pm

My hardware is an ooooold Dell Optiplex 110 w/ 512 Mb of RAM and the Dell OEM soundcard (you don't look a gift computer in the mouth :mrgreen: ).

It currently runs both XP SP2 and Ubuntu 7.10.
For Aeolus or Genpo, it is good enough. With jOrgan which is much more CPU hungry, it is feasible, but always on the verge of unacceptable latency or crackling.

I've been able to compile MyOrgan and run it over Jack, since the soundcard only sample rate is 48kHz, and I didn't change the source code to allow 48kHz. I used the Stiehr-Mockers sample set with no perceptible latency, but lots of crackling and of course no reverberation.

I have the strong feeling that I'll have to change that hardware somewhen in the future, in which case I'll run Ubuntu only.

Are there native linux solutions for a software reverb ? Of course, VST host in Wine could do the trick !

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby ggoode_sa » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:20 pm

Hi astazou,
There are a bunch of reverb options for Jack users in Linux.
In Ubuntu (I run 8.04) the Gverb LADSPA plugin (using through Jack-Rack) is great, and jConv is a convolution reverb engine that is superb (only command line options so I script it), plus there are a number of other reverb pluggins for Jack Rack that I haven't used.

Jack is also available for Windows users with an ASIO driver connection (as Jackdmp - see http://www.grame.fr/~letz/jackdmp.html), so it would be quite possible to connect MyOrgan to QJackCtl as well as a VST Reverb and map the MyOrgan channels through the reverb before the output goes to the system speakers. If one doesn't have an ASIO sound card, the ASIO4ALL driver can be used, but then one would need to change the script to run Jack ("C:\Program Files\Jack v1.90\jackd.exe" -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::ASIO4ALL v2"). Then we truly have software reverb for ANY soundcard :-)

GrahamG

erikds
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:11 pm

Re: Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby erikds » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:47 pm

ggoode_sa wrote:Jack is also available for Windows users with an ASIO driver connection (as Jackdmp - see http://www.grame.fr/~letz/jackdmp.html), so it would be quite possible to connect MyOrgan to QJackCtl as well as a VST Reverb and map the MyOrgan channels through the reverb before the output goes to the system speakers. If one doesn't have an ASIO sound card, the ASIO4ALL driver can be used, but then one would need to change the script to run Jack ("C:\Program Files\Jack v1.90\jackd.exe" -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::ASIO4ALL v2"). Then we truly have software reverb for ANY soundcard :-)

GrahamG


In my case MyOrgan and Jack for Windows do not work together.
Jack is installed in C:\Jack and in that subdir there is the file libjack.dll
MyOrgan crashes with a fatal error as long as this file is not renamed to something else.
Once this is done, MyOrgan starts and works happily.
Ever observed something similar?

All the best.

Erik.

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby ggoode_sa » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:55 am

Hi Erik,
Just a few questions which may help in resolving the crash problem...
    Which version of Jack are you using?
    Which version of Windows are you using?
    What sound card do you have?
    What settings in Jack Control are you using? (Click on the Setup button to see the settings)
    In MyOrgan are you using "ASIO: JackRouter"?
I'm using Jackdmp 1.90, but I see the next version is out so will likely upgrade this weekend. I have MyOrgan working nicely with Jack on two computers.
GrahamG

erikds
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:11 pm

Re: Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby erikds » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:06 pm

Hello Graham,

Thanks for the tips.

I have uninstalled Jack v 1.9.0 and installed v 1.9.1.
The problem disappeared. MyOrgan works nicely with Jack.
To get latency low enough i set buffers to the minimum in Jack Settings (16).

It could well be that the problem was the result of a mixing between V 1.9.0 and Jackdmp 0.71.

All the best.

Erik.

Jeroen
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 6:16 pm

Re: Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby Jeroen » Sat May 02, 2009 6:24 pm

Hello,

I have also installed asio4all v2.9 and Jack.

But what are the settings of Jack to hear the reverb while i am playing.
At this time the settings are the default installation settings.

When i play i hear the sound but no reverb.

Thanks

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: Software reverb with ANY soundcard

Postby ggoode_sa » Sun May 03, 2009 11:38 am

Hi Jeroen,
Jack allows you to route the audio signal from MyOrgan into a reverb VST (like Freeverb3 - http://freeverb3.sourceforge.net/) or any other sound effects VST.

It is best to run Jack through your ASIO interface, and as you've already downloaded and installed ASIO4ALL I assume that (like me) your soundcard does not have a native ASIO driver. So, to get Jack working with ASIO4ALL, create a copy of the Jack PortAudio shortcut and change the target executable to:

"C:\Program Files\Jack v1.9.2\jackd.exe" -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::ASIO4ALL v2"

Once Jack is running, startup MyOrgan and select the JackRouter driver, then start up your reverb VST and select the JackRouter driver as well. Start Jack Control, click on the Connections button and then connect the MyOrgan output to the VST input, and make sure the VST output is to the system speakers.

You can now adjust the settings in your reverb VST to suit your acoustic environment.

Let us know if you need any more pointers :-)

GrahamG
Johannesburg, South Africa

astazou
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:18 pm

Re: I'm feeling such a dummy :o(

Postby astazou » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:54 pm

astazou wrote:I've been able to compile MyOrgan and run it over Jack, since the soundcard only sample rate is 48kHz, and I didn't change the source code to allow 48kHz. I used the Stiehr-Mockers sample set with no perceptible latency, but lots of crackling and of course no reverberation.


I managed to discover that all that crackling happens if the on-board audio volume is set too high. It all boils down to saturation !!!
Same thing on the Lenovo T400 provided by my boss, with Ubuntu Studio 9.04
I definitely need external audio amplification.

And BTW, my old Dell was upgraded to ubuntu 8.04 and still works like a charm under MyOrgan + jack-rack + gverb with the Stiehr-Mockers sample set :mrgreen:


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