[P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

This section is dedicated to topics related to the building of virtual organs, MIDI keyboards, consoles, etc.
Cette section est dédiée à la construction d'orgue virtuel, claviers MIDI et consoles d'orgue.
Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:56 pm

Bonsoir Graham,
I tkink I found how to use a USB memory stick to run Linux, I have an unusued computer that I could use as a playground...
For me , a middle sized instrument has something like 33-35 stops, anyway I just have 40 stops knobs. I would love a third keyboard , but the console would take more place and get heavier , and I already have a grand piano.
I love late baroque instruments and early romantic ones.
My repertoire mostly consist of Buxtehude, Bach and Sons, Mendelsohn, Franck and Vierne. But I regularly discover interesting music to play, like Hubert Parry's chorales I also played lots of french music for organ, but only if I get an organ with a suitable temperament.
I will use a dedicated sound system and computer for the organ and I don't plan to end with too many speakers. Projects grow bigger but rooms don't.
Right now, I search and read a lot just to fix goals and limits for my project.
I found someone who will assemble the Midibox128 kit for me.

Thanks again

Pierre

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby ggoode_sa » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:20 am

Bonjour Pierre,
Take a look at the Brut-Leuchten specification (http://zionorgan.com/samplesets/Brut-Le ... /index.htm). It is a II/P 29 Rank baroque style organ made from free samples sets (including ranks from our beloved Jeuxdorgues2). What would you add or change?

I got some work on the Puppy GrandOrgue installer done last night, and will be testing today and tomorrow in what limited free time is available (I work full time & we're out at the Hi Def Opera Cinema tonight). But I will have something ready for you to download and test, along with step-by-step instructions. Do you have any MIDI keyboards at the moment, or will you have to perform the MIDI conversion of the console in order to have MIDI?

Which part of Canada are you in (and which time zone)? We're in GMT + 2

Have fun!
GrahamG

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:13 am

Bonsoir Graham,
It is very difficult to evaluate an organ thru it's specification on paper only.Neo-classical organs frequently left me unsatified.
The Zion organ seems to be weak on both plenum and foundation richness, lots of upper works, only a two ranks mixture, a predictable weak equilibrium between keyboards, to many single ranks quint sounds.
I would prefer Josefh's organ , or Van Dijk's Reil organ:
Hoofdwerk Rugwerk Pedaal
Praestant 8' Praestant 4' Praestant 16'
Cornet sterk Gedekt 8' Subbas 16'
Bourdon 16' Roerfluit 4' Octaaf 8'
Holpijp 8' Woudfluit 2' Bazuin 16'
Octaaf 4' Quint 1 1/3' Trompet 8'
Spitsfluit 4' Sesquialter 2 sterk Trompet 4'
Quint 3' Scherp 3 sterk
Octaaf 2' Dulciaan 8'
Mixtuur 4-5 sterk
Trompet 8'
Koppel Manuaal 1-2, Koppel Pedaal 1, Koppel Pedaal 2, Tremulant
Cymbelster

I loved the Pibrac organ (small), Cavaille-Coll at Lucon Cathedral is beautifull but not the recently added keyboard, Silbermann's St-Quirin , Luxeuil organ....
I don't have a Midi keyboard but could find one for tests, if I am sure about what to look for.
If I use an USB device to boot P.Linux does that needs to be dedicated to only that purpose, with no other file in it?
I live in Québec City, Atlantic standard time, right now , it is exactly midnight here, not so cold but winter is surely coming soon.
Thanks to you I have a lot on my hands and mind to make fun, but I find it stimulating,
Pierre

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby ggoode_sa » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:36 am

Hi Pierre,
I love the Pibrac organ too! I did not have the funds available to get the Riel Organ when it was released... but was thinking about getting it for Christmas (and now that the site is down I don't know what to do). Take a look at the Kitchener sample set at http://stores.lulu.com/organworks?fContentOffset=30. Perhaps we can blend the Stiehr Mockers with the Pibrac and get a few other ranks from some of the others?

I have done more testing with GrandOrgue in Puppy and am quite happy with the results. I'll send you a personal mail with details of where you can download it and instructions later today.
GrahamG

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:33 am

Bonsoir Graham,

Do you know this site:
www.themysticorgan.com in french,'' L'orgue mystique''

Dr. Yves PetitClerc created the Oberwerk-Compenius organ for Milan Digital Audio. The product is still available on their downloads section but no longer promoted as it once was.
Now he has created is own website, offers an ODF Creator, and two instruments wich sound like those modern baroque tracker organs we find here. He is both an artist and a very skilled informatician.
Perhaps you two should talk together, he no longer seems to promote HV, he turned to GrandOrgue...
He lives not very far from here. There is an another PetitClerc promoting OpenSources...are they relatives?
I got an USB stick,put Puppy Linux4.2.1 on it. I need to buy extra memory for the computer and find a suitable usb midi keyboard . I will soon be ready to make tests.
It is still possible to get the Reil organ from www.pcorgan.com . I didn't buy it because i wanted to wait and watch was coming on...I simply had a not very good feeling. Samples sounded very nice but a few things I heard made me cautious and sometimes ones needs to read between lines.
If you can find it , listen to Bach's Orgelbuchlein played on Luxeuil organ HMA1951215. This organ with pipes from 1617 to 1980 includes a large number of pipes from Callinet. I never played this organ, but veritime I hear that recording, I feel this is MY favorite all around organ. An organ not very far from Alsace.
Bye, Pierre

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby ggoode_sa » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:56 am

Bonjour Pierre,
Yes, I have been in contact with Yves in regard to the ODF creator (I was a beta tester ;) ) and really like what he has done with his sample sets. I did not know that he had created the Oberwerk-Compenius organ for Milan Digital Audio. I will probably be in contact with him again once the new Stiehr-Mockers HW3 sample set is complete (as those samples will also create the new GrandOrgue/MyOrgan sample set).
Ideally I want to create a simple Puppy based CD image that has all the software needed to run GrandOrgue and jOrgan, but time is scarce!
GrahamG

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:46 am

Bonsoir Graham,

About Yves... on the Net peoples are like ognons with multiple layers....we just discovered how good and efficient your knowledge of the french language is... i will remember that. But Mr. PetitClerc is a very capable and nice guy.
Your idea of a CD is wonderfull, that could lead to a viable alternative to HW. I have the feeling you could be the man GrandOrgue miss and needs to florish and become an interesting viable alternative to HW.
My opposition or denial of HW is not a matter of money, it's more about philosophy and the way they simply use historic organs in a very mercantile way.
Could you tell us whitch organ simulation you like the most among the long list available? And for what reasons.
Bye ,
Pierre

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby ggoode_sa » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:22 am

Bonjour Pierre,
As Martin and Brett make their livelyhood through Hauptwerk and their sample sets I find it hard to fault their commercialism. But I do find that some Organ Sample set producers have excesively high prices that I will never be able to afford unless I become a multi-millionaire. For a simple hobbyist like myself I have found that a combination of jOrgan and GrandOrgue produces the best results for the almost non-existant budget. The Midi equipment, computer, speakers, etc. are costly enough :-)
jOrgan (in comparison to GrandOrgue and HW3) is a lot easier to configure and customize. Creating new skins is easier. Dealing with couplers, memory levels, combinations, etc. is also easier. With version 3.7, jOrgan also now has MIDI recording and playback capabilities (improved with the recently released 3.8 version). And as jOrgan can be used to control Soundfonts, LinuxSampler, GrandOrgue, Kontakt, HW3, etc. it allows one to 'mix-and-match' the best sounds from the various sample sets. Currently our main organ is a composit of two instances of GrandOrgue and one of fluidsynth. The GrandOrgue instances are populated with ranks from about 5 different organs, and the fluidsynth instance runs one of Bernd Casper's jOrgan soundfonts. I have a custom jOrgan skin (created from photos I took of the console at church) used in a disposition that controls all three sound elements. I'm hoping to add some ranks from a few 'HW3 only' organs as I bought HW3 Basic this year (after three years of saving for it - ok, I got MIDI keyboards, pedalboard, and a few samplesets that worked with HW1/GrandOrgue first, but this all started three years ago). That's the Classical Organ. Then I have a 3/29 Threatre Organ that is purely LinuxSampler/jOrgan based and a 3/24 that is fluidsynth/jOrgan based. All of these run in both the WIndows XP 32-bit or the Puppy Linux partitions (and I just added a Windows 7 64-bit and Ubuntu 9.10 64-bit harddrive this week).
So I guess for me there is no single 'best'. I combine what I like the most and use jOrgan to play it all together. What I play depends on my mood - and usually I'm more interested in creating than playing :-)
Have fun!
GrahamG

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:53 am

Bonsoir Graham,

Most people using virtual pipe organs never played a real pipe organ in a cathedral or even a small parish church…so they think the real thing is what they get thru speakers in their dining room…if they only knew… Only trained organists realize that VPO are very useful but in no way a real substitute, just a very useful tool.
On the other way is it interesting and useful to find talented guys who like to deal with programs and software. To me computers are just a tool to deal with. I sincerely admire your ability to master the machine; my head spins every time I read you guys, how you manipulate components and the way they interact.
I mostly love to play. Although I sometimes love to contemplate my hand made realizations, I am not very interested in the technology behind it. Just an old scholl fool probably ;.))
About mixing everything together and simply being pleased with it … the same reasons lead to the destruction of so many Silbermann, Cliquot, even Cavaille-Coll organs. Past errors in pipe organ building history should teach today’s virtual organ constructors, not induce them in the same mistakes. B.M and followers copy, they do not create…like blood suckers, they succed because past achievements. Those historic organ owners frequently struggle to stay even in tune…Why do you think they agree (give access to the organ console) despite such a masquerade? And I am not sure they really understand all untold implications this access means. Not so many years ago, it was difficult even for a renowned organist to get access to those organ consoles.But enough about them.
It is why I hope so much for someone who could offers a viable, creative and stable alternative, some simple( relatively simple) all in one package for all those who like me like more to play, don't want to change specifications every ten minutes or spend their time palying with BIos, drivers and so.
By the way, a friend of mine sent me a copy of Walter Strony’s Secrets of Theatre Organ Registration…he is a joker… although I like to hear theatre organs, handling one is an another mystery to me. If you like a copy…

But keep the good work and your helpful spirit.
Bye
Pierre

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:30 am

Bonsoir Graham,

Could you give us details about performing, évolutive but realistic and reasonnable computer requirements for a dedicated GrandOrgue-Linux system? We already know that it is easier to deal and live with having too much than needed than constanly having to choose , cut and miss ;.)
Motherboard, sound cards, mémory, speed ...Is there any computer brand, style or configuration either to avoid or try to find?
About midi interface or eventually hubs?
Do you think is better to have one taylor built computer or are generic ones perfectly suitable?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but i don't think I'm alone unsure about those things.
Soon or later everybody will feel the needs to upgrate, but a good start on solid ground is a better investment than trying to constantly put patches here and there.

Thanks a lot

Pierre


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