[P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

This section is dedicated to topics related to the building of virtual organs, MIDI keyboards, consoles, etc.
Cette section est dédiée à la construction d'orgue virtuel, claviers MIDI et consoles d'orgue.
Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

[P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:47 am

Here you can describe your (already finished, in progress, or just new-born) project !
Feel free to delete this topic if you do not want to describe your project (and in that case
sorry for having created it).

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Projet d'orgue virtuel,/Virtual organ project

Postby Pierre 1203 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:17 pm

Bonjour,
I will describe my virtual organ project a little later. First , I want to ask a question to our english speaking friends on this forum. i posted this question in the french section of the forum but received no answer...

''What is going on with www.virtual-organ.com , Rieks van Dijk and Praelude?''

Dr.Pickett's ProgOrgan is no longer available, Toccata is dead, MyOrgan and GrandOrgue are not very strong and alive.
I am not much interested in HV mostly because of its philosophy and complexity.
I plan to built a medium sized organ, around thirty stops with a traditional console, for practice purpose.
Right now , I don't know if I will pursue this project or simply buy an electronic organ.
Your comments and suggestions are welcome.
I live in Québec , Canada
Thanks ,
Pierre

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:03 am

Bonsoir,
As promissed, here are my plans for a virtual pipe organ.
First , my goal is to end with a reliable, easy to configure home practice organ, and pleasing both eyes and ears.
I want to build a terassed console, with about 30-35 max stops knobs plus couplers and tremulant. One expression shoe.
I prefer late baroque, early romantic organs. I am not into the bigger the better philosophy nor Startrek instruments.

I already have two Casavant keyboards with traditional silver contacts ,stop knobs from Wicks with reed switches, an AGO pedalboard, 32 notes with magnetic switches ( Hall). I would have prefered a paralel pedalboard but those are considered exotic here. I have lots of very fine wood and a complete wood shop.I also have a few console plans and measurements.

I first wanted to use Collins Pickett's ProgOrgan since he offered a very intelligent complete supported system, but just before I wanted to order it , he decided to stop it's distribution. I still don't know the real reasons.
Right now,I can't progress anymore because I need to find what software would suit me best and each software having very specific needs in the computer -interface department, I don't want to buy those items in an ignorant or blind state.
I am a member of the EOBS, Electronic Organ Builder Society, they offer lots of information , kits at very nice price (PCB interface, midi encoders,power supply units etc.) but my previous experiences with UK stuff make me cautious and nervous...
Every time I look and read on virtual organ web sites or forum, I feel discouraged and just want to buy a plain ready to play instrument from a nearby store.
Soldering, computers and programming are not my strong points, I am good at wooodworking and organ playing. I want to play organ, not spend my time playing with or against it.
I have some help and will need more help and advice.
So , any piece of advice, any comment is welcome.
Yours,
Pierre
P.S. Should I write this in french?

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby ggoode_sa » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:47 am

Hi Pierre,
Thank you for your posting! It is always great to hear/read what other people are doing in the virtual pipe organ world.

In answer to soem of your questions... I have no idea what has happened to Rieks or his website, I was in email contact with him earlier in the year in regard to GrandOrgue so will drop him an email this week and see if I get a response. I've been working on getting GrandOrgue running natively in Puppy Linux (I have it working in 4.2.1 but not in 4.3 or 4.3.1) and have been in contact with the new copyright owners of the MyOrgan code (Brett Milan/Milan Digital Audio). While they will not be developing MyOrgan any further, they have no issue with the further development of the code base as long as it is released under the GPL license with the correct copyright details.

In regard to your VPO project I would suggest that you look at jOrgan to use as a MIDI relay (http://jorgan.sourceforge.net/doku.php/introduction), GrandOrgue as the Sound producer (download the tutorial on how to use them together from http://cid-c6dd879f60fadf98.skydrive.li ... hO0EenU%24).

Then, as you're not into much soldering/DIY on the electronics side of things take a look at Midiboutique products (http://www.midiboutique.com/) Artisan Organs (http://www.artisanorgans.com/), and Classic Organ Works (http://www.organworks.com/Web/home/index.asp AND in Canada!) [ranging from mild DIY to complete MIDI solutions].

Let us know a little bit more about the organ stops that your are looking for and we can give you more advice on what software to use :-)

GrahamG
Johannesburg, South Africa

musicreprints
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby musicreprints » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:54 pm

Le site d'après son titre est français. Mais voilà que sous des titres en français on ne trouve que de l'anglais dans les posts.

Désolé mais le désir que j'ai de rendre service n'ira pas jusqu'à traduire une prose dans une langue primaire que j'abhorre à cause de ce qu'elle est synonyme de mondialisme !

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:37 pm

Bonjour,
Le titre du forum est en francais mais cette subdivision du forum me semble avoir étée présentée comme étant bilingue, au gré , bon vouloir ou besoin de tous et chacun.
Permettez-moi seulement de vous faire remarquer que lorsque j'ai posté ma première question sur la section francaise du forum , je n'ai reçu aucune réponse, il n'y avait que des lecteurs silencieux.

Je tiens a dire a tous que vous êtes un des seuls , un des rares , qui répond toujours aux questions avec générosité, rapidité et connaissance.
Ce dont je vous remercie.
Et il est admirable de constater que vôtre esprit demeure aussi vif dans une langue que vous n'aimez pas mais maniez fort bien.

Vôtre,
Pierre

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:55 am

Bonsoir Graham,

First , I want to thank you very much about your answer.
We all at suspected that king B.Milan was behind the early official retirement of MyOrgan, and I fear he will do it again and again.
Right now, lots of details or informations tell me that he did it again with Praelude: Mr. van Dijk no longer answer emails , is in the Philippines and his assocaite-affiliate website, Nico Goes(Gino Midi), no longer talks about Praelude, and finally , you could still find van Dijk Reil's organ on a PC computer, HV dedicated website. Even Pickett's decision is still obscure and full of contradictions...
I don't fear kits , I have very helpfull and capable friends and brothers, but do you know anything about the quality of those kits offerd by the ÉOCS, Electronic Organ Constructor Society? I am a member.
My last experiences with british products left me with an ...unsatisfied taste to the least. They frequently have fantastic products, but with almost esoteric specifications.They start something great and abandon it before gaining a deserved recognition. England is an island in more than one way...
I already read you thru some other VPO organ websites, and your recommendations are worth carefull consideration and detailed examination.
Linux scares me...but if it worth the effort, why not?
Just one final thing, sound style is not so important , we , organists deal with it everyday, but i am very sensitive to sound quality.
Tonight , i am going to carefully study those links you gave us,

Thanks again, Pierre

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby ggoode_sa » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:02 am

Bonjour Pierre,
B Milan has stated that he was not behind the early retirement of MyOrgan... but both Martin and Brett saw MyOrgan as a 'clone' of HW1, and did not allow discussion of it on their forum (and were pretty negative towards people who tried to discuss it). I believe that this was for mostly for business reasons. I think that Kirk (the original programmer) crossed into some 'grey' areas in making MyOrgan, as he used the same look and feel and file format in MyOrgan as in HW1. I then think that for religious reasons (due to the negativity from the HW world) and perhaps possible legal reasons (purely speculative on my part) he gave Milan Digital the copyright and trademark.
Now that HW3 has a free version with 250 stereo note polyphony, Milan Digital Audio have begun to cater for people who cannot afford HW3. The limitations are stringent, but great for playing small VPO instruments. I'm fully behind the further development of GrandOrgue, particularly in Linux, but there are no computer programmers currently involved in the project - just some of us who can compile and read code and make minor changes. Enough on that one :-)

I am currently building my own MIDIbox based VPO using the 128IO project. I have had the PCB boards made locally (as importing them would cost more) and am in the middle of assembling. There seems to be a large user base and great forum for questions and help.

For my Classical VPO I currently run two instances of GrandOrgue and one of fluidsynth, all controlled by jOrgan. I then add reverb to the audio stream before sending it to the speakers. Audio quality is of high importance for us too :-)

GrahamG

Pierre 1203
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:53 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby Pierre 1203 » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:33 am

Bonsoir Graham,
For the past few days , I have been revieuwing your posts on a few virtual organ web sites. What I read and what you told me, is full of good sense, very interesting, and finally quite tempting. In a way , is the only way to go if one doesn't want to embrace HV or a basic non évolutive way to go.
I must say that , for me , it means a lot more to master...Linux being the most scary . On the other way , I understand that Linux is the only way to develop MyOrgan in a legal way. You use the Poppy version of Linux I think.
I hope one doesn't need to become a Linux virtuoso in order to run GrandOrgue properly . Very honestly , I feel a little intimidated but also quite exited.
I already have a few Audigy 2 ZS sound cards, should I find other ones? I want more than one to get increased polyphony.
My desires are for a middle sized organ, what about reasonnable but comfortable computer requirements?
Any specific requirements, or any brand to avoid?
What do you think about electrostatic speakers (Quad)either for upper range or a secondary keyboard?

Thanks again,

Pierre

ggoode_sa
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:26 am

Re: [P. Legros] Mon projet d'orgue virtuel

Postby ggoode_sa » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:30 am

Bonjour Pierre,
I should have a build of GrandOrgue with installer for Puppy Linux version 4.2.1 (not the latest release - GrandOrgue is broken at the moment in Puppy 4.3.1). Download the CD Image of Puppy 4.2.1 from ftp://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributio ... monkey.iso and burn it CD, then boot from the CD and follow the configuration prompts (mouse, keyboards, screen resolution). This loads Puppy in your RAM and doesn't touch whatever other software is installed on the computer. This will allow you to test Puppy and see how easy it is to use (remember, it is not Windows... so some basic things are quite different. For example: SINGLE CLICK on an icon will load the program!). When you shutdown Puppy Linux it will ask if you want to save a file. If you want to keep your settings for a later boot from the CD you can save a Puppy file to your harddrive (this will just be one file that contains a compressed file system).
I would recommend the use of a USB Memory stick for testing purposes with Puppy Linux. You will be able to install Puppy Linux onto the USB Memory stick and then boot from the memory stick, and run everything from there. If you want to try this, let me know and I'll send you the steps for getting it all woring.

In regard to Polyphony, on my AMD dualcore 2.8Mhz with 4 Gig Ram I'm able to run one instance of GrandOrgue with full 4096 notes. What I have also done is to run more than one instance (I have compiled 6 different builds of GrandOrgue) and run one with the Great, one with the Swell, and one with the Pedal, and this then allows me to route the audio of each division to different speakers. Controlling the three instances of GrandOrgue with one screen from jOrgan makes this very easy to manage.

When you say a 'Middle Sized' Organ, how many stops are you thinking? Two Manuals and Pedal or Three? Romantic, Baroque, or a large enough variety of stops to have both? Do you have any sample sets already chosen? We can also combine Ranks from different sample sets, so don't be limited by what sample sets are available...

The lack of bass response (due to phase cancellation from a lack of enclosure, and the difficult physical challenge of reproducing low frequencies with a vibrating taut film with little excursion amplitude) make the electrostatic speakers OK for the upper frequencies, but they have to be balanced carefully against the Midrange/Sub woofer so that they blend the sound. Are you thinking of using a 3-way splitter or of using software to manage the cross-over points?

Hope some of this made sense :-)
GrahamG


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